Curse

BigTru · Feb 07, 2006, 04:11 AM // 04:11

While Hammer warriors are completely viable and usefull, I feel their is still a small imbalance as opposed to Sword/Axe warriors.

Sowrd/Axe users are allowed to equip shields, which can give them +16 armor and up to 45 more health.

That in itself is not a problem, but it's the fact that Hammer warriors are not really compensated for the loss of armor.

You'd think that Hammers would outdamage Sword/Axe in return for less defense. Less defense, more offense. That would seem fair.

However, that is not the case. Obviously Axe outdamage Hammers and arguably swords as well.

I do not feel the arguement of knockdowns being compensation, as I feel that that is already compensation for slower adrenaline gain and lack of (good/quick) conditions.

Again, I don't think it's a big issue. But I think it could be something to keep in mind if tweaking the balance between weapons ever does become something of interest to A.Net.

SaintGreg · Feb 07, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

I always wondered why the amount of +damage in the hammer skills was lower than that of axes and swords. They still do a good amount of damage, but it seems a little unfair that hammers should do any less damage at all per attack considering their slower attack speed.

Soul Shaker · Feb 07, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Frenzy + a hammer=death to all. Also including yourself sometimes, but not before you take down at least 2 people...and with a good monk o.O

Jay the Jake · Feb 07, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

max dmg on a hammer is higher than max dmg on a sword and axe. I personally prefer the axe over both. Hammer has a slower strike rate than a axe or sword and like you said you cant equipped a sheild. I know acouple people that like the hammer, but personally its not my cup of tea. Thats why they give you a choice

BigTru · Feb 07, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

That isn't the point. The point is that it is an underpowered weapon.

It has a slower attack speed and a higher max damage. Does that make up for the fact that it does less damage than Axes and possibly Swords when factoring in skills and that it gains Adrenaline slower as well as giving the user less defense? No. Not in my mind and not in the mind of many. Is it dramaticaly underpowered? No, it still gets the job done. But that doesn't mean the balance shouldn't be improved.

tafy69 · Feb 07, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Hammers own, nothing scarier than a hammer warrior in your face. Their adrenaline costs are a bit high though, the axe warrior can use eviscerate atleast 2 times faster than your devestating.

Hammers saving grace imo is Irristable Blow

actionjack · Feb 07, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

maybe a +6 AL hammer mod?

JR · Feb 07, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

A good hammer chain that is well executed can kill a monk without giving them the chance to cast. Axes and Swords can't.

Blaine Derrick · Feb 07, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Hammers can be brutal. Knockdown is the one of most devastating thing that can happen to someone.

EDIT: yeah, I guess wheel has a point there....

wheel · Feb 07, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Death is a little more devastating.

Ken Dei · Feb 07, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

A good hammer warrior beats an axe/sword any day of the week. A mediocre one can still do ok. Example: 1v1 Dual between me(axe) and a hammer warrior, I lost, but at the end there weren't 100hp between us, and the reason WHY I lost? A hammer skill that weakened my attacks and knocked me down. People who scoff at knockdown have never fought a chain knockdown warrior with stonefist gauntlets.

But to be fair, I've never used a Hammer, only fought them, so, maybe it could stand a little boost.

Daenne Dilana · Feb 07, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Well, i have two things to say they agree with both and disagree with both

W/E build with hammer is very strong as, they can knock you down a lot with gale and hammer skills, and ive also fought other Hammer warriors that completely owned me, i use a sword FYI, they kept me knocked down i couldnt do any damage, i could only run a little bit before they knocked me down again. With proper usage of the skills Hammers can be deadly, but..

The slowness of attacks makes the high adrenaline cost a pain, but with frenzy or flurry + for great justice which makes adrenaline recharge twice as fast it can be better, but then again this can be used for sword/axe warriors making their skills come back quickly, cleaving everyone 2 hits can be nasty.

Overall, i would say that the axe/sword builds are better for soloing, and can keep you alive as a W/Mo better with Hundred blades or cyclone axe+ vigorous spirit, im not sure how you can keep yourself alive with a hammer as easily, and farming with a hammer is probalby more difficult too, but i dont use hammers ever so i cant tell you too much.

-DD (axe FTW)

Thorivol Liadon · Feb 07, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

I've been playing a lot of Monk in Randoms, and I can generally protect myself from any single warrior, and simply continue healing my teammates with only a little effort. That is, unless its a hammer warrior. Their knockdown simply destroys my ability to maintain protections and energy. So while the math may say Swords and Axe do more damage, the hammer has the trump cards.

Warskull · Feb 07, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Hammers have the knockdown affect which is one of the most powerful affects in the game. While knocked down you can do absolutely nothing. This is what makes hammers strong.

Queto · Feb 07, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

A good hammer chain that is well executed can kill a monk without giving them the chance to cast. Axes and Swords can't.

You are SO right there. I use Berserker's Stance to charge adrenaline, and then I use a 'spike' to kill one target, that can't run away or cast any heals.
I used to play tigeraxe warriors, but I think a right-played hammer build is better then any other warrior (in PvP ofcourse)

Edit: On topic: Bows only have +5 armor too, but if you compare it with other warriors, hammer users have indeed less armor (11 minimum, not counting rec dmg -x and hp +x). Something need to be changed yes.

Soul Shaker · Feb 07, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Still could use a little more damage technically. Knockdown is devastating, but you can't do damage without a chain...early PvE with an almost max hammer and frenzy...i was wondering why i did so much damage...

Later on it's worse though.

Nevin · Feb 07, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

With hammer I've been able to deal 100 damage to caster classes every swing, (Not counting criticals) Although it could be a bit stronger.

Neotherin · Feb 07, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Try using Warrior's Endurance with Power Attack and Irresistable Blow. You can chain the attacks and you get a lot of added damage. I've used this in RPG mode when I have enough defense from the monks to not need a shield, and it works alright.

In PvP it shines.

Throw in Hammer Bash, Crushing Blow, and either Shock or Gale. Now, you're set to do some nice knockdown combos with very little charging up of adrenaline and you have almost as much damage as an axe warrior, sometimes more depending on what type of defensive spells are on the target.

Irresistable Blow makes up for all the lack in hammer skill damage.

Two April Mornings · Feb 07, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

agree with most above but have to say that indeed a hammer mod that is perhaps+7 universal instead of 5 is needed

Ensign · Feb 07, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Normal hammer attacks deal around 10% more damage than normal axe attacks. Hammers also get a bunch of knockdown abilities which easily make it the most disruptive weapon available. You do lose some defense from the lack of a shield, granted, but that's more of a playstyle restriction than anything.

The only real complaint I have with the hammer lines is how poorly balanced the skills are in respect to both each other, and comparable skills in other lines. The knockdown skills are all strong and the reason you're in the line to begin with. The other skills? Not so much. Mighty Blow is strictly worse than Executioner's Strike / Galrath Slash. I know that they are a bit worried about huge hammer criticals making for huge spikes, but it still seems just a little silly. Crude Swing? It's the kind of skill that would only really be special in PvE, except...yeah. Are they worried about Crude Swing powering Earthshaker or something? I don't understand why those skills can't be on the same power level as comparable skills in other lines.

Peace,
-CxE